Su Hail lives in the industrial part of Chicago proper, the heartbeat of any good urban entity. The constant bustling of trucks and heavy equipment pass me as I walk up to the entrance. As I round the stairs upward, I hear sounds of a crash and feel it through the soles of my feet. I see a face of a woman appear as I reached the seventh floor landing. She works for one of the many companies that reside in the massive industrial building. “Where is Su Hail Design?” I ask. She shifts the clipboard from on hand to the other, pulls a phone from her hip suddenly and barks an order, and without missing a beat, points to her left with the phone, but never once looks at me. This sort of efficiency is always inspiring. As I enter, I take in the space, which is an enormous loft packed with welded sculpture and workstations cramped yet organized. Toward the back is a large workshop separated by a sliding metal door. As I walk in, Su Hail is talking with a partner about a project, he is fervently involved and his intentions are crystal clear. Su Hail is a tall, good looking and slender man with black hair pulled into a ponytail. His eyes set back into his head with high cheekbones. He wears a red flannel shirt. Su Hail is a man with vision, and ability to see and gather an idea and take it way beyond the next level. He provides an area for us to talk near his towering metal sculpture. He seems a bit nervous, however with such a great portfolio it may well just be anticipation. Some of his projects include resurants and bars as Tizi Melloul, Mod, Sugar and Sonotheque, all of which are in Chicago. See images from clubs Su Hail designed...

Interview, Su Hail. Spring, 2003

Design-engine: All right. Well, first I would like to talk to you about just yourself, kind of some of the background. When did you decide to become an artist? When did you decide to become a designer?

Su Hail: I already classify myself as an artist. I was growing up I England and to tell you the truth my whole interest was in mathematics and physics, and mostly in the technical subjects, mostly in the sciences. I had no interest in art; I had no interest in design. I had no idea about that of any of that stuff. If liked working on drafting tables. I had fun doing technical drawings. At the same time I used to love making model airplanes, so I kind of loved making things. So when it came down to deciding a profession I kind of decided well, engineering drawing is good so what other sort of professions come from there. And I looked at engineering, structural, mechanical, there was interior design, and there was architecture. I thought architecture sounds like a good profession to have. So I looked at the aspect for architecture and architecture was a very long course here, a three-year degree, two years, Masters, and then you have an internship. I thought well, that sounds great. A long period away from home, that is the way to do it. And in order to get in I had to have an art portfolio and of course I did not have one. I kind of took my sister’s. And that is basically how the whole thing started actually.

D.E: Where did you go to school?

S.H.: I went to the Birmingham School of Architecture, which is like a 100 miles north of London.

D.E.:To build skyscrapers some day?

S.H.: No. I had to clue. When I first started architecture the stereotypical idea is like you are going to wear a suit and you are going to walk around with drawings in your hand and there is going to be skyscrapers somewhere down the road. That is the romanticized view of architects. The realistic aspect of it was, even to contemplate getting to that point you have got to go through a series of phases. You have to go through an education; you have to go through a series of experiences to get to even that point. So when I started for me it was more exciting because I was learning things that were not necessarily anything I had known before. I was learning to draw. I was learning to be creative. Prior to that I was very much into, the sciences so I had that down. But now I am applying another side of my brain to something, which was even more intriguing to me. To tell you the truth, I barely got my degree. But somehow between the degree and the Master’s starting. We call it the master of postgraduate in England. The penny dropped. Suddenly I figured out how I could have fun with these kinds of designs. And I think it was also appropriate that I had the right kind of staff that I followed. I mean, I had the type of people who I thought yes, he is good, he is telling me to challenge myself. And I like that about that kind of thought process. And that thought process was already instilled in me and I liked the aspect of…not necessarily the rebellious aspect, but the aspect of an alternative viewpoint of how design can come from. And that is what really intrigued me. And that is pretty much when I started thinking well maybe if I can get through the school and then I can apply the same rationale that I have been given in the studious environment that I can kind of still have fun with it. But realistically, when you graduate and you become a suit and start working for companies,( I worked for Scidmore, Lynch and Merille), you forget all that. And I think, why does it have to happen like that? And this is just a generalization. Why do we have to forget the exciting concepts, the exciting rationales that we can come up with because now you are in a realistic situation? You know, reality is here. So it was kind of disappointing coming to Chicago and getting a job with SLM and suddenly you are just like any other face. You sit down at a computer, you know, I was working on Ludgate Hill, I think, in London, which is very ironic because I came from London to work on projects. And that was surprising. But like I said, I mean, I was not in a position to dictate stuff. All I knew was there has got to be more than this. I mean, the fun that you had as a student coming up with all these crazy concepts, even though you know it is never going to be built, but that was fun. That was basically what I thought is that design cannot just be this now. It cannot be the end of it. I have got to have fun. Why can I not apply the same rationale to the real world? So that is how the whole thing developed for me. I wanted to retain more of the fun. I got laid off because of the recession in 1991, 1992 and I started doing my own thing. I got a welder and started welding my own items and, you know, had more fun. And I started learning to do stuff. I made a lot of mistakes, I made a lot of crap, but you have to go through those phases to get to where you need to be. I was having fun more than anything. I was not making any money but I was having a lot of fun and was also doing architectural competitions, also doing something. I was always get placed, was always getting some mention. It was paying the rent and the portfolio was building up, which is more important to start putting yourself in those positions. And you know, one thing led to another. Various friends suggested hey, you could do this, you could do that. I said, yes, I could that. I can weld that. And then with the first check I bought myself a welder and started welding stuff.

D.E.: Did you teach yourself the welding art form?

S.U.: Well, prior to that what I did is when I was at school, we had to do this concept for a house design. And it was basically taking household furniture and deconstructing it and developing concepts from it. So rather than me finding me a household object like a chair or a table or sewing machine, I decided to build my own. So I went to the metal shop and actually built a chair. And again, this is very strong geometrically; it was based on my technical aspect from sciences. And I built this chair, which is my logo now. This is the first thing I ever built, which is on my site. And that is basically how the whole thing started. So once I taught myself to weld I thought how hard could that be? When I came to Chicago I thought I was a welder but, you know, just because you can weld does not mean you are a welder. But I was able to convince people because I can weld and even though, they do not want to spend the money, I will do it for anything anyway. So I was in the right place at the right time for a number of projects, you know.

DE: Checks and balances.

SU: Exactly.

DE: What design shows did you do?

SU: Oh, I did the Chicago Design Show a couple years, I did the L.A. Design Show, I did ICFF. I was invited to do Alta* Point in Milan. I got invited to a lot of shows and it was fun just because you are kind of interacting like you were when you were at school. You are doing concept stuff, building it, and showcasing it. I was not actually selling anything. You know, I was spending a lot of money on just traveling and showing stuff that I had built. However, to me it was like the foundation for where I hopefully am going. So that is basically part of it is that I have to be able to convince myself that I had the ability to do stuff by sticking my neck out. Any money I made I just built stuff for myself, I did not build stuff for clients. Any money I made from client stuff I kind of put it back into buying new equipment and buying new ideas for doing stuff.

DE: Let us talk about some of your recent works. What is the predominant orientation that you have with your work, your design work right now? With everything that you have done with restaurants, some clubs, do you see yourself really growing as a designer?

SU: Yes. I do not really classify myself as one type of a niche designer. I am not restaurant designer; I am not a residential designer. I can put my mind anything if I put to it. I mean, it happens in phases. There was a period where I was just doing hair salons and I was just designing beds for customers, you know, various custom beds. And then suddenly doing kitchens, and then suddenly, you know, I am the restaurant guy, you know. And so now I am residential, I am doing New York residential projects now. But it happens like that. And like I said, I try not to, you know, most people in Chicago are only aware of what is written about you and they only write about what is now and people remember you that way. And like, I get emails and requests for information for restaurant stuff. And even the press stuff, they want to pigeon hole you. It is something like hey, I do not want to be a restaurant designer, I do not want to be anything, I just want to be able to design anything, you know. I would like to design a gas station. I would like to do a number of things, but I am very careful how I have to represent myself because people get so easily stereotyped with what you are doing, so I am very careful with that. But typically now, the phase I am going through I am doing very high-end residential projects in New York. I have finished Sonotech* right now, which is kind of a bar club, which I actually have not done a club. It is more like a lounge so it is a different feel. It was a completely different look and it was a different challenge for me, you know. Why, it is all articulated based on…I mean, any project I do stems from what I have already done in the past. Meaning, whatever I have done in the past how can I completely do a 180-degree turn from the previous project? What are the new materials I can use? What is the color scheme? What is the overall feel? I do not necessarily want to be recognized for any large body of work. I do not want to say well, this is the (inaudible)*. I want to go in to each project saying okay I am going to reinvent myself. So that is why going into this project, you know, I delve into acoustics, I delve into the theme, which was basically sound. I mean, going into creating a space which is more to do with music, DJ’s, live music. So the space had to deal with those issues. Those were the themes.

DE: How would you classify yourself? I know you do not like to pigeonholed, especially with what we have talked about, but would you consider yourself a pragmatist that is fueled by the functionality of the space or is it the opposite? SU: There are a couple of things. I started off not knowing anything about design. I learned how to design concepts together. Then I went from that conceptual thing to a practical aspect of building stuff. I know how to build stuff. I weld, I fabricate, and I do installations. I do a lot of my stuff onsite. A lot of stuff at Sugar I built myself. Friends helped me but I did a lot of my installations. I love that. I love the aspect of being involved with the process because it is an added layer on top of the design to be physically building stuff and assembling it and installing. It just gets you to another level. It just feels better to be able to kind of complete the whole process from concept to physically nailing it down. So I have that very pragmatic aspect. For example, Sonotheque was an extremely functional aspect. The space was a representation of how…. I said I want this space to look the way it sounds. Most people will look at those elements and go that looks like wall text* where it is a cool kind of texture. But I did not use it because it was wall text; I used it because it is a practical means of achieving my sound levels. And then Sugar was the other thing. It is more of a visceral thing to deal with colors and textures of Sugar. And yes, your themes were different, you know, it was more to do with insects and the dark side of cocaine and all that crap. And I had to do layers and layers and layers of it on top that, but at that the same time there had to be a tacky aspect to it. There is a little tacky aspect to it because not everything is going to want to look like Sonotheque, want to look like Mod*, but it was appropriate for Sugar. They originally wanted to do Willie Wonka but I said, no, do not do that. Let us go to the dark side and just have hints of wacky crap.

DE: How does a cutting edge designer like you view yourself? Do you want to create mainstream or do you want to stay on the fringe?

SU: I never thought myself as one or the other. I am in my own world doing what I do, made a reasonably good living out of it. So it is difficult when I speak on the rare occasion… say what you are doing. I say, why would you do it? I mean, you could do it like this and you could probably have more fun. Now I travel in Europe extensively now and the only reason I am doing that is because clients are allowing me to pitch them these crazy concepts, but in order to be at that point you got to have enough experience, enough body of work to get to that point for them to take you seriously. You know, press is great. But I never tell people go check this out. Just look at the work I have done. I try not to kind of bank on my past projects. I mean, once it is done I am over it, I already moved. I do not want to dwell on that. The process I get out of it is the process itself…from day to it is finished. I get a kick out of the whole process. The end product just happens to be them opening it. Fine, I mean, what am I going to get out of it? Nothing. You know, I have got the whole thing as another process of creating something, which is kind of different themes, a different budget, and a different kind of rationale behind it. But yes, I mean, it is just one of those things where people give you that kind of freedom now, and I am getting to a point now where I am very particular about doing projects that give me complete control. If I do not have control I am not going to do it. I have got to do it my way otherwise what is the point? And I put so much of my effort into a project that there is point in me kind of compromising and working in the general field in more of a stereotypical way because then I could be like everybody else. I could cut my hair and walk into an architectural practice and become an associate if I wanted to because that is not a problem. I know I could do that. I could make a lot of money if I wanted to, but then I would just be doing like everything else. I would be doing a lot of stuff that people kind of just feel like it is work. To me it is not work, it is just a lot of fun that I get paid to do. And to me everything I do is installation. They are all like weird components. And like I said, the body of work I have tried to put together is completely diverse.

Su: There was a time when I just did steel and stainless steel, then let me see, Tizi Melloul, I went to Morocco and found all these beautiful wall hangings and textures and carpeting. For that project it was appropriate. When the next project came by, which was Mod. I thought well, I have done this very ethnic theme for Tizi what should be the next one? Well now let us go synthetics. It just so happened Mod being American food it was more organic food so it was great because like you completely go in the opposite direction, and the dictated that. So I delved into synthetics and I found all these fantastic molded pieces, recycled plastics. Once Mod was done Sugar came aboard. And again, I was looking at imaging. How can I take these microscopic images of pollen and stuff, how can I transfer it on to material and delve into that, delve into a whole bunch of crazy stuff. And then when Sonotheque came, I needed to have sound absorption, I had reflection. Now, I am in New York doing this project for a couple that, have different ideas. But the thing is they both have this decadent thing going on. They have that really outrageous kind of feeling. So I thought, well, let us do it by doing it very minimally. The materials I am using are insane. They are sharkskin, pony skin. I am using leather, bamboo. I am using marble. So materials like these are very organic.

DE: Do you expect maybe that you would go into doing your own line of furniture or product design?

SU: I have already been through that phase. Before I started doing a lot more environment I did a whole bunch of furniture stuff. I did a lot of costume stuff. . I started off small. I started making candlesticks, candlestick holders and built up with tables and chairs. I built it up slowly so I could understand the process of how design works. I will still design specifically for the environment. I know that my strength is creating environments. Now whether they are restaurants or a corporate headquarters for a company, which I may be doing, or a residential or a gas station, whatever, that is what I want to do. That is my niche that is my strength, creating a complete environment.

DE: What else do you have going on?

SU: There is another company I am kind of bidding on is Siemens, a big techy company. And they have a sister company called Infinion*, which is their semiconductor company. These guys approached me about doing the building.

DE: So let us talk about your process. You know, where does that creativity fuse together with the direction? Is it instantaneous?

SU: Yes. It is typically the spark…it is just one theme. If I catch one theme and I look at and explore the potentials of it, it just opens up. The thing is I do not know what the result of those themes are. I just know this is exciting to start from this point of view because it is appropriate for a project because there are themes tied to it. It is appropriate for me because it is exciting because I am going to delve into something I did not know about before. But it is also exciting because I am going into this not knowing what the end result is. The end result is always the unknown, and that is the fun part of it because typically, most clients they want everything defined. What is this whole going to cost? You have to be prepared to know that most projects go over, but they realize that because the process is not definitive. It is ambiguous. But they know the ground rules, at the end of it, I might decide, because this space is doing this crazy thing, there is a great light shift here it is going to be great to have it back lit and we are going to have a back lit element right there. So it changes. It is really organic but the themes are set in stone. Once I have those, I will have to work it out with the client because they may think from a budget point of view. But, if you are going to do it, it must still tie in with the philosophy.

DE: So it is important to you to see your idea and have it come to fruition?

SU: Oh, completely.

DE: And if it does not?

SU: You have got to let it go. You just got to cut the checks and say, all right, man, we are going to see you in like six months or whatever it is and then you are going to trust me. Every project has doubt. If there is no doubt I do not think I am pushing myself hard enough. It is always great when you scare the clients because they do not know what the end product is going to be. It was the same with Tizi. I mean, they had no clue until like a week before everything was going to actually go off and all the furniture came in for Morocco, I fabricated all the stuff here. And the same with Sugar, until all those fabric panels with those images were in nothing seemed to make sense. There is only so much information I can give out because, I am busy coordinating, building stuff, so I can only be on site for a short period of time. But eventually it always gets there. But I want to be in a position to be able to say, here is what I dictate, here is what I need up front, are you up for a fun ride? It takes a brave client. I know that. I am not the stereotypical way of approaching design. That is how I have got to a point now where I know I have, you know, I have confidence in my ability now. You have to have confidence.

DE: Do you push yourself to extremes in design?

SU: Yes. I do. I still do not think I set some projects where they should be. I still think there is always room for improvement. There always is. I am very critical and still do not think I am that good. I still think that I am still learning. I still think that there are still things that I need to learn before I can say that yes, I have reached a goal. I am not at the level of any of the designers I appreciate, but in my own little world I know that I have got to a point where, you know, people are talking to me so I must be doing something right.

Su Hail is a successful Chicago designer, and his controversial attitude is one that will not go unnoticed by the design industry. He stands alone in pursuit of his goals, preferring to work alone in regard to his creative ideas. An extremely talented artist who believes in himself and his ability, at whatever the cost. The final product must make sense in its completeness. Money is not the concern, and corners must not be cut, staying true to the theme and creating that “world” is.

See images from clubs Su Hail designed...

Interviewed by Peter M. Meyer